Not ready for prime time
2 2

13 posts in this topic

I looked at all the available systems and ultimately chose Hubitat mostly because of it's potential. Having said that I don't believe it is a good option for former IRIS users unless they are "geeks" who love spending hours trying to figure out how to make things work. Documentation is sparse and obviously written by people who know exactly how something works and assumes everyone else does also. As an example if you search for the word "keypad" in the documentation you will find several references however none of them explain the 20+ panels on the keypad device manager window and there is nothing in the documentation that tells you what they all do or how to use them.

It also doesn't support Arlo cameras or Nest thermostats both of which I own. While IRIS didn't support Arlo cameras at least I was able to have it automatically set my Nest thermostat to "off" when I armed my alarm and to 70 degrees when I disarmed my alarm. I have hope that someday Hubitat will be able to do that plus turn my Arlo cameras on when an intrusion is detected.  The community tries to be helpful but so far no one has come forward who can tell me how to use the IRIS V3 keypad in Hubitat so I struggle to make it work myself. Using the built in function that is supposed to turn lights on and off I have managed to get lights to turn on and off via motion sensors. However, I have not been able to get it to turn a lamp on 30 minutes before sunset and off at 11PM. I created the rule but it doesn't work so I have another problem to figure out. There are members of the Hubitat community who say they have things working including security but so far none have come forth to tell me how to make my IRIS V3 keypad work like a security keypad is supposed to work.

It's not a secret that software developers in general do not like to write documentation. In Hubitat's case I would recommend they hire a professional documentation writer if they ever want Hubitat to become a mainstream home automation and security product. Otherwise it will most likely be relegated to being a fringe product which ultimately fails. This last part is just my opinion and of course I could be wrong and I hope I am.

Hubitat is not a turnkey system like IRIS was. IRIS was not perfect but for the most part it worked for both security and home automation and it was relatively easy to setup. Now I have invested $100 in the Hubitat hub so I'll continue to see if I can make it work. Being retired I have the time. Not sure I have the patients.

Bottom line is decide what is most important to you in a system and then how much time and effort you are willing to put into it to make it work. If security is your primary consideration then you might want to look elsewhere. Personally I think security is the most important thing. Intrusion detection, fire detection, water intrusion detection are things that help keep you safe and prevent expensive problems from happening. Home automation is nice but it is more of a gimmick feature as opposed to something that can maybe save your life and save you money.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be clear, your statement of "Hubitat is not ready for primetime" false.  It is dubious and misleading as it is based on your own experience and admitted lack of patience.  WIth that criteria, that statement could easily apply to SmartThings, Home Assistant, and pretty much every system out there.  With SmartThings it would probably be more true than ever since much of the documentation available, but much of it out of date, or specific to one of the two SmartThings apps.

Things have changed in the Home Automation space.  The herd is being thinned and weaker players are starting to go away.  The future is starting to emerge, and in it users will have two options; consumer DIY (Hubitat, SmarThings, Home Assistant, etc) with require some skills to get working, or go with a managed platform (HomeKit, Amazon, Google Home).  The problem with managed platforms is that they are closed or limited access ecosystems.  You get whatever devices and services the company chooses to offer and usually competitors are shut out.  You cited a lack of Nest support.  Guess what?  Nest declared a few month ago that they were going to stop accepting developer applications for companies looking to integrate ecosystems.  That effectively shut out Hubitat, and anyone else after them (i.e Systronics).

You cannot use Arlo as an example of a negative.  Arlo has a full integration with just three HA platforms; Google, Amazon, and SmartThings.  They will not play in the sandbox with anyone else.  Their API precludes others from creating unauthorized integrations?  How do I know this?  I wrote one for SmartThings.  Their API kicks all logins out whenever an API call is made under an acccount. 

Bottom line..  It's going to be hard to beat Iris's out of box experience and conveninece factor.   However, when it comes to reliability, flexibility, and expandability, Iris was left in the dust when V2 launched in its partially built state.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I appreciate your comments. It is my opinion that Hubitat is not ready for prime time. By prime time I mean for the average Joe or Jane or former IRIS user for that matter with no security or home automation experience could setup a security/home automation system by following the supplied documentation.  I think I explained my reasons fairly well. Their documentation is lacking.  The IRIS V3 Keypad driver has over 20 buttons or whatever they call those clickable panels. Nowhere in the documentation does it explain what they all are used for or how to use them to get the keypad to arm or disarm a security system. I clicked on them all. Some seem to do nothing. I spent a lot of time reading the documentation and posts in the community forum to glean some useful setup information. So far all I can do is arm the keypad by pressing the ON button on the keypad or in the device driver. I am not able to disarm it from the keypad but only from the device driver. There are no step by step instructions on how to implement that basic task of a keypad. I obviously still have more to figure out. I suspect now it may involve changing modes but I haven't had the time to experiment with that yet. Then there is the matter of simply turning on my living room lamp 30 minutes before sunset. I built the rule but it does not work. I can turn it on and off from the device driver so there is communication. Next step is to delete the rule and rebuild it as all my other tinkering with the keypad issue may be causing the rule to fail. On the plus side the lights in my garage and master closet go on and off based on motion sensors. That makes the wife happy.

You are not the typical user. I have read many of your posts which clearly suggest that you have experience the typical individual does not have and that experience allows you to master these types of systems. As for my experience I have built, repaired, and modified my own computers. I have written rather sophisticated computer programs using Clarion by SoftVelocity and WinDev which build the basic programs for you but to get additional functionality you have to add your own code. However I don't have any C coding experience which I believe is the language of Hubitat.

I chose Hubitat after looking at the other alternatives. I think it has the most promise and since making my initial post I have linked Hubitat to IFTTT.COM where it appears I may be able to control my Arlo cameras and Nest thermostat. Having said that I stand by my conclusion that Humitat in it's current state is not ready for prime time and unless the developers hire a professional documentation writer it may very well always be a product only for "geeks" who like to tinker with stuff like this if the company survives at all.

This is a forum for former IRIS users. A place where they can go to get information about where to go next. I think I gave anyone who may read my post an honest assessment of the current state of Hubitat. Personally I will continue plugging away at trying to get my IRIS V3 keypad to be the focal point of arming and disarming my security system because that is what my wife is use to and I want to keep her happy. Press the ON button and the system arms. Enter the code and press the OFF button and the system disarms. Simple as that only getting it to do that is not so simple.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, GaryS1964 said:

I appreciate your comments. It is my opinion that Hubitat is not ready for prime time. By prime time I mean for the average Joe or Jane or former IRIS user for that matter with no security or home automation experience could setup a security/home automation system by following the supplied documentation.  I think I explained my reasons fairly well. Their documentation is lacking.  The IRIS V3 Keypad driver has over 20 buttons or whatever they call those clickable panels. Nowhere in the documentation does it explain what they all are used for or how to use them to get the keypad to arm or disarm a security system. I clicked on them all. Some seem to do nothing. I spent a lot of time reading the documentation and posts in the community forum to glean some useful setup information. So far all I can do is arm the keypad by pressing the ON button on the keypad or in the device driver. I am not able to disarm it from the keypad but only from the device driver. There are no step by step instructions on how to implement that basic task of a keypad. I obviously still have more to figure out. I suspect now it may involve changing modes but I haven't had the time to experiment with that yet. Then there is the matter of simply turning on my living room lamp 30 minutes before sunset. I built the rule but it does not work. I can turn it on and off from the device driver so there is communication. Next step is to delete the rule and rebuild it as all my other tinkering with the keypad issue may be causing the rule to fail. On the plus side the lights in my garage and master closet go on and off based on motion sensors. That makes the wife happy.

You are not the typical user. I have read many of your posts which clearly suggest that you have experience the typical individual does not have and that experience allows you to master these types of systems. As for my experience I have built, repaired, and modified my own computers. I have written rather sophisticated computer programs using Clarion by SoftVelocity and WinDev which build the basic programs for you but to get additional functionality you have to add your own code. However I don't have any C coding experience which I believe is the language of Hubitat.

I chose Hubitat after looking at the other alternatives. I think it has the most promise and since making my initial post I have linked Hubitat to IFTTT.COM where it appears I may be able to control my Arlo cameras and Nest thermostat. Having said that I stand by my conclusion that Humitat in it's current state is not ready for prime time and unless the developers hire a professional documentation writer it may very well always be a product only for "geeks" who like to tinker with stuff like this if the company survives at all.

This is a forum for former IRIS users. A place where they can go to get information about where to go next. I think I gave anyone who may read my post an honest assessment of the current state of Hubitat. Personally I will continue plugging away at trying to get my IRIS V3 keypad to be the focal point of arming and disarming my security system because that is what my wife is use to and I want to keep her happy. Press the ON button and the system arms. Enter the code and press the OFF button and the system disarms. Simple as that only getting it to do that is not so simple.

I'm afraid I agree with Gary. Hubitat is very functional, but with extremely poor documentation that makes it VERY difficult to use. It's a hodgepodge of individual apps, and unintuitive rules, that you only learn to use with patience and trial and error. I still am having trouble even accessing the cloud dashboard- it works for a little while and then nothing. This is completely unacceptable, and yet you have people loudly proclaiming Hubitat doesn't even need an app (and there still isn't one). I am a total geek, and have no trouble setting up pretty much anything, and I will say most average Joe's will struggle with Hubitat. I have Lowes iris contact and motion sensors that report Temps of 7000 degrees if the temp is somewhere colder than 32F. Why? They are supposedly supported and I need that functionality. At any rate, that's been my experience. I am planning on continuing trying to make Hubitat work for me, but it's been a very challenging experience to say the least.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Spott5000 said:

I'm afraid I agree with Gary. Hubitat is very functional, but with extremely poor documentation that makes it VERY difficult to use. It's a hodgepodge of individual apps, and unintuitive rules, that you only learn to use with patience and trial and error. I still am having trouble even accessing the cloud dashboard- it works for a little while and then nothing. This is completely unacceptable, and yet you have people loudly proclaiming Hubitat doesn't even need an app (and there still isn't one). I am a total geek, and have no trouble setting up pretty much anything, and I will say most average Joe's will struggle with Hubitat. I have Lowes iris contact and motion sensors that report Temps of 7000 degrees if the temp is somewhere colder than 32F. Why? They are supposedly supported and I need that functionality. At any rate, that's been my experience. I am planning on continuing trying to make Hubitat work for me, but it's been a very challenging experience to say the least.

We are in agreement especially in regards to the state of the documentation. I still think Hubitat has the greatest potential but it is currently not the best choice for typical former IRIS users, who are the target of this forum, who are looking for a turnkey solution. Hubitat will require a lot of knowledge, time, and effort to get it to do what IRIS did out of the boxc. In the end Hubitat can do so much more if you have the time, patients, and requisite knowledge to make it work. I've spent hours and I'm nowhere close. SystronicsRF and others should pay attention to yours and my complaints. The race is on. In my opinion the winner will be whoever produces a product that the average consumer or in this case the average former IRIS user can purchase and easily setup and use by following the provided documentation.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Spott5000 said:

. I have Lowes iris contact and motion sensors that report Temps of 7000 degrees if the temp is somewhere colder than 32F. Why? They are supposedly supported and I need that functionality.

I have the same problem. Do you or anyone know of the fix for this?

image.png.eb0a01f3889df6fb2a0a88beb5c9808e.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, mikeyc said:

I have the same problem. Do you or anyone know of the fix for this?

image.png.eb0a01f3889df6fb2a0a88beb5c9808e.png

This also happened immediately upon the "upgrade" from Iris V1 to V2. It took Iris a month or more to fix it. Not sure what the problem was, though. @thegillion might remember. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Arlo can be controlled via IFTTT integration from Hubitat, I use it to Arm/Disarm my Arlo cameras based on our Geofence controlled modes but it can also trigger the camera to begin capturing.  I've just always allowed the cameras to do thier own motion detection and capture since I originally had them on SmartThings which had some built in integration with Arlo but I never liked the way they implemented that integration and how it took away many of the features of the camera.  I also always liked the Arlo app better than viewing the cameras from ST.  Hubitat doesn't have any camera support currently although depending on the cameras you can make them viewable in the Hubitat dashboard.  I replied on you keypad issue, hopefully that helps.  I have 2 Iris v2 keypads and 1 Iris v3 keypad all working to arm/disarm my HSM.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, mikeyc said:

I have the same problem. Do you or anyone know of the fix for this?

image.png.eb0a01f3889df6fb2a0a88beb5c9808e.png

The only thing I can think of is that when you go into the device panel there is a place where you can set a reference temperature. It works for me. Have you tried that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Terk said:

Arlo can be controlled via IFTTT integration from Hubitat, I use it to Arm/Disarm my Arlo cameras based on our Geofence controlled modes but it can also trigger the camera to begin capturing.  I've just always allowed the cameras to do thier own motion detection and capture since I originally had them on SmartThings which had some built in integration with Arlo but I never liked the way they implemented that integration and how it took away many of the features of the camera.  I also always liked the Arlo app better than viewing the cameras from ST.  Hubitat doesn't have any camera support currently although depending on the cameras you can make them viewable in the Hubitat dashboard.  I replied on you keypad issue, hopefully that helps.  I have 2 Iris v2 keypads and 1 Iris v3 keypad all working to arm/disarm my HSM.

I just started looking at IFTTT and linked it to Hubitat. It does appear it will help solve my Arlo cameras and Nest thermostat integration issues. I'll take a look at your response to my keypad issues. Thanks for that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gary I have to agree with you on Hubitat...for those that have a lot of time & patience & love to tinker, Hubitat is great. I've had Hubitat for over a month now & still struggling with it..I still have Wink & ST...mainly wanted Hubitat for security...I don't think I'll ever port everything over to Hubitat though as I have a full time self employed job & no time to tinker...I'm no dummy on computers either as I'm an old phone phreak (2600 Hz) from the early 70's & got my first comp in '79.

I too have Nest & have not even tried to fool with it as Wink supports Nest as well as all my Ring doorbells. I have 7 Iris keypads...5 of which are 2nd gen & 2 are 3rd gen.

I have six of them working to arm & disarm...haven't fooled with the 7th (3rd gen) keypad yet...but my 3rd gen keypad does arm & disarm the system....have you checked the drive for it in Hubitat?

For what it's worth, it took me weeks on getting the keypads working and even sometimes they mess up & don't arm/disarm. The dashboard setup took me a few late nights too...Hubitat "may" be great someday but they do lack documentation....if they ever do come out with some decent docs on it I'd bet dollars to donuts that they don't show a female using & implementing it! LOL

My wife is ready for me to throw Hubitat in the trash & we stick with Wink & ST. I really don't think Hubitat will ever make it mainstream...I think it will always be just like it is now...for geeks & tinkerers...I'm too old to devote much time to it but yet I still "play" with it a bit..but TIME IS MONEY for me & extra time is something I don't have a lot of now...20 yrs ago for me Hubitat would've been "FUN"--now it can be a PITA even for simple (?) security...& unless Wink or ST goes down, I'll never move it all over to Hubitat as "simple" seems to be an oxymoron when we're talking about Hubitat. :)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/12/2019 at 2:46 PM, mojo2600 said:

Gary I have to agree with you on Hubitat...for those that have a lot of time & patience & love to tinker, Hubitat is great. I've had Hubitat for over a month now & still struggling with it..I still have Wink & ST...mainly wanted Hubitat for security...I don't think I'll ever port everything over to Hubitat though as I have a full time self employed job & no time to tinker...I'm no dummy on computers either as I'm an old phone phreak (2600 Hz) from the early 70's & got my first comp in '79.

I too have Nest & have not even tried to fool with it as Wink supports Nest as well as all my Ring doorbells. I have 7 Iris keypads...5 of which are 2nd gen & 2 are 3rd gen.

I have six of them working to arm & disarm...haven't fooled with the 7th (3rd gen) keypad yet...but my 3rd gen keypad does arm & disarm the system....have you checked the drive for it in Hubitat?

For what it's worth, it took me weeks on getting the keypads working and even sometimes they mess up & don't arm/disarm. The dashboard setup took me a few late nights too...Hubitat "may" be great someday but they do lack documentation....if they ever do come out with some decent docs on it I'd bet dollars to donuts that they don't show a female using & implementing it! LOL

My wife is ready for me to throw Hubitat in the trash & we stick with Wink & ST. I really don't think Hubitat will ever make it mainstream...I think it will always be just like it is now...for geeks & tinkerers...I'm too old to devote much time to it but yet I still "play" with it a bit..but TIME IS MONEY for me & extra time is something I don't have a lot of now...20 yrs ago for me Hubitat would've been "FUN"--now it can be a PITA even for simple (?) security...& unless Wink or ST goes down, I'll never move it all over to Hubitat as "simple" seems to be an oxymoron when we're talking about Hubitat. :)

 

Hubitat has great potential. It lacks usable documentation. For "geeks" it's a great product with so much capability. I'm in between "geek" and average user. Not sure who I'm closer to. Hubitat is frustrating and time consuming but I'm sticking with it as my only system.........for now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I finally got my IRIS V3 keypad working. By working I mean it will arm and disarm my security system. I would like to tell everyone who is struggling to get their keypad to work exactly how I did it but the truth is I don't know. I just kept trying different things and finally got it to arm and disarm my system. I do plan to address how I think I finally got it working over in the Hubitat Community fourms. Hopefully point those still having trouble in the right direction. The wife will be happy because she liked just pressing the ON button on the keypad and walking out the door and then entering the code and pressing the OFF button when she got home.

I was listening to the podcast on YouTube that was mentioned in another thread. Doesn't sound like they are going to do much to improve the documentation any time soon so so it will be one of those systems you are going to have to tinker with and as such some things will be easy and others will be frustratingly difficult. Patients and persistence in large quantities will be required. 

Things that I set up when I first got my hub are just simply working. I don't even think about them. They just work. In the two weeks (not a long time) I've had my hub nothing has failed to work once I set it up properly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
2 2