Gen 1 device limit?
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For those of you that switched to Hubitat and moved over your Gen 1 zigbee devices, are you finding that there is a limit to the number you can connect reliably? I am finding that many of the contact sensors are not reporting correctly. I have tried different batteries, removing and repairing but it always ends up the same. I did try to connect up a bunch of Gen 1 smart outlets but I am not sure if the Hubitat integration of these outlets includes the repeater functionality so this may be for nothing. Any ideas or suggestions? For those that have moved, how many devices do you have connected?

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I haven't paired any v1 devices to my Hubitat environment yet but I've seen discussions claiming that you should change your hub to zigbee channel 20 in order to get the best results from the v1 devices, and that the change can take 24 hours to complete.

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I believe mine is already there. I did get confirmation the limit of zigbee direct connections to the hub is 32. So if you have an extensive zigbee network on Iris you will have issues on Hubitat unless you use repeaters. Hubitat is indicating the gen 1 plugs are not repeaters.

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32 devices seems like it could be a serious limitation for many installations.

Presumably that is as you said direct connects so you could have many more devices one hop away correct?

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Yes, sounds like they typically expect a repeater to handle 6 devices. But a posting on Lowes.com said they recommend an outlet for every 15 zigbee devices.

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This was the Systronics guys' answer to that question, at least as to their system:

"Regarding device limits, there’s no real upper limit. The ability to extend the mesh by adding additional routers, in the form of SmartPlugs & Range Extenders, allow the system to support many devices. There are users with ~100 Gen 1 devices on a single Gen 1 network."

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44 minutes ago, pavalov said:

This was the Systronics guys' answer to that question, at least as to their system:

"Regarding device limits, there’s no real upper limit. The ability to extend the mesh by adding additional routers, in the form of SmartPlugs & Range Extenders, allow the system to support many devices. There are users with ~100 Gen 1 devices on a single Gen 1 network."

To further this I have communicated with Steve White, former Iris power user that worked closely with Hubitat to development the current ZigBee stack and he says this is totally false information.  He currently has V1 devices that far outnumber 32 working just fine with Hubitat.

I'll see if I can muster up enough V1 devices to push Hubitat to it's limit and report back.

 

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12 hours ago, scunny said:

To further this I have communicated with Steve White, former Iris power user that worked closely with Hubitat to development the current ZigBee stack and he says this is totally false information.  He currently has V1 devices that far outnumber 32 working just fine with Hubitat.

I'll see if I can muster up enough V1 devices to push Hubitat to it's limit and report back.

 

Now I'm confused. You quote a post that says there is no limit but your comment reads as if the post you quoted claimed some limit.

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11 hours ago, Vettester said:

I currently have 105 Zigbee devices on Hubitat and I'm not having any issues.

But do you have a bunch of repeaters? If so what ones are you running? 

Last night I added more V1 outlets and noticed the zigbee polling was faster or seemed to be but some devices that are reporting are not reporting correctly.

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2 hours ago, sparc said:

Now I'm confused. You quote a post that says there is no limit but your comment reads as if the post you quoted claimed some limit.

I quoted a post that said a limit of 32 was false not that there was no limit.

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I gave up on Vera because it stopped functioning once 20 or so Zigbee devices had been added (became very unstable and the Zigbee network would crash and stay crashed). So I switched to Hubitat with the new "Elevation" hub, and the Zigbee controller currently has 49 devices on it, of which 31 are Iris V1 devices (plugs, buttons, motion sensors, contact sensors). I have had no systematic problem at any stage with adding new sensors or any other Zigbee devices. I did have a problem with a single Iris V1 contact sensor (worked fine with Iris) that I could not pair, and had to pair and repair a couple more. I test the devices right after pairing, and once properly paired, have operated flawlessly. Because of the Vera experience, I have been watching to see if Hubitat starts having Zigbee pairing problems. Other that what I have mentioned, there has been no problem.

I do have a couple of very nice VeraSecure paperweights now...

Update: 10 more Iris V1 added without difficulty. Also, I have no devices that claim to be Zigbee repeaters. Interesting that the Iris V2 Smartplugs have "Zwave Plus" marked on the back of them, but they pair only under the Zigbee network. I have heard that the Zwave portion of this plug functions as a Zwave repeater, but Hubitat does not recognize or register any Zwave component.

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On 5/9/2019 at 9:32 AM, Wlepse said:

But do you have a bunch of repeaters? If so what ones are you running? 

I do have 23 smart plugs paired to my hub.

14 - V1

9 - V2

If you enter this into a browser on your network:

http://hub_ip/hub/zigbee/getChildAndRouteInfo

you should be able to look at your ZigBee routing table.

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So weird. Tonight I checked and a few were unresponsive. But then I cycled them open close and pressed the tamper switch a few times. One seems to be working normal now, the other responds but is a bit slow. Not really sure what to think.

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That is strange.  Like with Iris, I have found the Gen 1 plugs to be the most dependable devices I have on the SystronicsRF system. I'm fighting right now with some smart bulbs being unresponsive, but I've never had a single misfire with my many Gen 1 plugs. They pair easily, I never have to send a command twice, and they are always responsive to the Advanced Actions (rules) I've set up. I rely on the plugs to operate my dehumidifiers, which it is very important not to have running during my peak-rate electric periods.

BTW, SRF has made operating the dehumidifiers much easier than with Iris because SRF has enabled humidity-based actions. I can now have a humidity sensor turn on the plug until the humidity drops back to a safe level in my crawlspace (but not during peak hours!). With Iris, I had to set up a time schedule to run them whether the humidity was high or not since Iris never enabled humidity-based device rules that actually worked with an Iris-capable device.

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We're finding many things work better with other platforms but likewise we're finding Iris made some of the routine tasks much easier to accomplish.

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23 minutes ago, pavalov said:

I'm fighting right now with some smart bulbs being unresponsive, but I've never had a single misfire with my many Gen 1 plugs.

I've added a 2nd Hubitat hub so I have a dedicated separate ZigBee network on a different channel for my GE Link bulbs.  The two hubs are connected via HubConnect so everything is still integrated into a single system.  You should be able to do the something similar with SRF by adding a 3rd ZigBee network.

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3 hours ago, scunny said:

We're finding many things work better with other platforms but likewise we're finding Iris made some of the routine tasks much easier to accomplish.

Yes, the Iris rules options were sometimes limited, but I sure miss the plug and play aspects. The SRF humidity-based functions I mentioned are great, but it requires a pretty complex set of Actions and Activators, and takes a while to build it.  Thankfully, they have good written documentation on how to do it.

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2 hours ago, Vettester said:

I've added a 2nd Hubitat hub so I have a dedicated separate ZigBee network on a different channel for my GE Link bulbs.  The two hubs are connected via HubConnect so everything is still integrated into a single system.  You should be able to do the something similar with SRF by adding a 3rd ZigBee network.

I may have to go to that, but SRF wants to see if they can resolve it first. They released a control system update today that did the following:

Improved event triggering for Light / Plug Turned On & Turned Off events.
Improved turn on & turn off command where actions control numerous devices.
Extended network level commands for OSRAM / Sylvania bulbs and similar.

I'm testing it now. I think the old Sylvania IQ bulbs are going to be alright; I don't know yet about the OSRAM A19's, which gave me some trouble on Iris as well.  Are the Link bulbs stable now that they have their own network?

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Way back in the good ole Iris V1 days, I had horrible Zigbee connectivity problems at one of my installations. A particularly good tech was able to look at a map, and suggested removing a couple of suspect plugs that were located near the center of the problems. Removal of the two suspects fixed the problem, and I was able to plug the remaining good one back in. Just like any defective network component, these things are capable of producing a network flood. A rogue device could be the source of your problems, @Vettester, rather than a problem with the underlying system. I never came across another bad Zigbee device, out of about 250.

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31 minutes ago, hxn said:

Way back in the good ole Iris V1 days, I had horrible Zigbee connectivity problems at one of my installations. A particularly good tech was able to look at a map, and suggested removing a couple of suspect plugs that were located near the center of the problems. Removal of the two suspects fixed the problem, and I was able to plug the remaining good one back in. Just like any defective network component, these things are capable of producing a network flood. A rogue device could be the source of your problems, @Vettester, rather than a problem with the underlying system. I never came across another bad Zigbee device, out of about 250.

If only there was an easy way for users to see a map of their ZigBee and Z-Wave networks and the relationship between each of the devices in those systems as in who's talking to (or through) who.

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1 hour ago, hxn said:

A rogue device could be the source of your problems, @Vettester, rather than a problem with the underlying system. I never came across another bad Zigbee device, out of about 250.

My GE-Link Bulbs were alway problematic on Iris and I had the same experience with them on SRF.

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